0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree Helpful Unhelpful So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. They should specify what materials will be used, hourly rates, and estimated time to do the work. No, you shouldn't buy a home with polybutylene pipes. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? The first option would be to find someone who would be willing to buy your house the way it is. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. PB-1, when applied as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, rubber and engineering polymers. The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. if the sellers had disclosed the pipe material in the beginning. mortgages They dont have to rely on lenders, appraisers, or third-party inspectors. Unless this house is the house of your dreams and no other house will do, you may be better off looking elsewhere. However, many insurance companies do not cover the damages caused to homes due to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene pipes. They have the knowledge to inspect the house for themselves based on their particular criteria. You dont have to wait to find out if your home appraised successfully or if the lender will even accept your property. They work with property values in your area every day. Additionally, it has become very common for sellers to either make concessions for a buyer to re-pipe after closing or to re-pipe the home themselves before the sale. Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? Polybutylene (PB) is a plastic used for piping in home plumbing systems that were manufactured between 1978 and mid-1995. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? Facts vs. Fiction 6. foreclosure If you have time to sell but you dont have the funds to make the needed repairs, you will probably want to consider selling to an investor. We have already researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the industry. The average cost to replumb a house will vary between $5,000 to $7,000. houses Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. To keep going forward I'd thought about negotiating back down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement. Replacing polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections to your water supply. You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. Not sure a home has poly? PB-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers. Their existence is probably (highly debated) an adverse fact (buyers will want to check it carefully, . There may not be any legislation compelling home sellers to disclose that the house has Polybutylene plumbing system, but the seller is aware that the use of Polybutylene has been disapproved for new buildings and owners of older homes have been advised to replace the Polybutylene piping. You may have seen examples of this on television. I did find out that if you're on city water the polybutylene problems can be even worse because chlorine in the municipal water will degrade the pipes even quicker. The polybutylene pipes should have come to light during the home inspection or as part of seller . If you have both the money and the time to make repairs and market your home to the general public, that could be your best choice. Joined: Jun 2012. Mandatory disclosure (M) of pipe material (lead not specifically addressed) or lead pipes if seller determines conditions unsafe (Example: State-required form asks, "Type of plumbing system: Copper/Galvanized/Plastic/ Polybutylene./Unknown/ Other") Wisconsin Voluntary disclosure (V) of lead pipes This article discussed the issues with polybutylene pipes and how you can replace them yourself. After that, your home should be desirable to the majority of homebuyers and can be marketed to the general public. Even if you get a section of polybutylene pipe where the leakage or fracture is repaired, another major fracture is most likely found in a different area. Call today at 954-734-7429 or 1-888-8-Insurance. Polybutylene pipes are often used with copper fittings which can also confuse a homebuyer. Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. If polybutylene pipes had to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a home but sellers said No Representation. This allowed "jointless" layouts. They can handle most of the diligence themselves and are the only decision-maker involved on their side of the deal. If they don't agree, though, we are going to have to walk away. Better, but not a total solution. Once the pipe is old enough to have one or two hairline cracks, the cracks will keep increasing until it has many cracks, eventually becoming too fragile to hold its structure and breaks. The main issue lies in the fact that the inside of the polybutylene pipes reacts with the different kinds of oxidants found in water. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. Polybutylene is practically guaranteed to break down at some point, and it's impossible to tell how soon that will be just by observing a pipe's exterior. If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. There were lawsuits including a class action lawsuit involving the pipes and disclosure issues. Your agent is not liable at this point since home inspection did what it was supposed to do: discover defects and needed repairs. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. Minerals in the water, particularly chlorine that was used for purification reacted poorly with the pipes. 1991 - document.getElementById('copy-current-year').appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date().getFullYear())). Call our residential repipe division to schedule a free estimate for your home: Or visit our regular residential repipe site to learn more: Repipe Specialists - USA245 E Olive Ave #500Burbank, CA91502. Along with durability, these pipes are also heat resistant which makes PEX pipes a great choice. The inspection money has now saved you from buying a house you don't want. There is no marketing time at all. They seemed to be a perfect material for plumbing pipes because they were inexpensive and held up well under high water pressures. The second option will take more time and money but it may result in a higher price for your home. Furthermore, even if your poly pipes never leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your home value and may affect yourhomeowners' insurance policy. Now that you know who your as-is buyers are, where do you find them? In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. You can sell your house fast and for cash to an investor. Once youve confirmed that you have polybutylene pipes that need replacing, you need to select the right contractor for the job. Polybutylene pipes cause uncertainty for the buyers as these pipes problems are not immediately visible. Contact us by phone or email with any questions, or to schedule a no-obligation in-home (or remote) consultation with one of our Estimators. By the 1990s, however, problems had begun to surface. What do you mean I cant get home insurance? We know that many houses built between 1978 and 1995 have polybutylene pipes. The most common questions are about disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your client regarding Kitec and polybutylene. Disclaimer: we aren't lawyers, and aren't providing any legal advice here. When it comes to selling a house with polybutylene pipes, it can be quite a challenge. These variables . Looking for your dream house can be difficult; finding a home that you like and a place that has exactly what youve been looking for can be challenging and time-consuming as well. Initially, contractors installed around 10 million polybutylene pipes in homes in the US. https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. What does polybutylene pipe look like? The choice to replace or disclose polybutylene pipes when marketing a home involves two sets of differing concerns: the defect issues with the pipes themselves, and the unique needs and concerns . I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. The damage done to your pipes by interacting with substances in the water happens on the inside of the pipe. We completed all our inspections (structural, septic, water, pest, home), the bank ordered the appraisal, the Realtor hired the attorney. It also said check all that apply. Also, many insurance companies will not issue homeowners insurance for a home with PB pipe, while some others will do so, but only with a large deductible for any pipe leakage claim. As mentioned above, the main problem with polybutylene pipes is that they are too fragile in the long run and become very weak from the inside and subsequently crack. homebuying Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? Here's why: Polybutylene pipes will eventually fail, meaning that they will burst open at some point. 3. What they do is they buy the property, which they can upgrade, make the required repairs, and then sell the homes making good profits on their investments. Polybutylene pipes (settlement, seller, disclosure, house) User Name: Remember Me: Password Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Hence, to answer the question, yes, a seller is obliged to disclose the presence of polybutylene pipes. It will not definitely fail. Please include a message before submitting. You could easily run afoul of these laws if you arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes in your home. Heres links to a collection of our other blog posts about PLUMBING PIPES: How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. In 2017, a new polybutylene class-action was filed with Hurt v. Shell Oil, which attempted to include homeowners left out in the prior 1995 settlement. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. Therefore, unfortunately, getting the polybutylene pipes in your house fixed or exchanged is no option. However, in mid-1966, manufacturers ceased production due to allegations claiming that polybutylene pipe failures caused property damage. having polybutylene pipes and fittings that haven't leaked yet. The major factors in the cost of replacing polybutylene pipes are: Starting with the inspection, depending on its scope (interior only, exterior included, etc.) There are many different water pipes available on the market that you can purchase to replace polybutylene pipes. The seller: Nearly every U.S. state has laws requiring sellers to advise buyers of certain defects in the property, typically by filling out a standard disclosure form before the sale is completed. We will get it done for you. Water supply piping only, not used for drains or vents. If you are the listing broker and you or your seller knows the property has polybutylene or Kitec plumbing systems, it's pretty obvious - you must disclose the fact to the buyer just as you are required to . Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; apartment even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. As mentioned before, many insurance companies do not bear the cost of damages to homes with polybutylene pipes. That would confirm your plumbing is polybutylene. If the Seller wants to ignore the poly issue, ask them to sign a Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all potential liability. Even though most potential buyers would hesitate to go for a house with polybutylene pipes, there are always specific buyers interested in it these type of properties, as we have discussed earlier. Another option you can consider if you are interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes is talking to the seller of the home or the real estate agency that is marketing the house and ask them whether or not it is possible to get the re-piping done and if they can split the cost with you to reduce the burden on you. What can you do if you buy a home and later discover something was omitted from seller disclosure? If they have not failed yet, thats hardly an endorsement of their condition. foreclosure Were going to look at both ways of selling your home and the factors that you need to think about with each option. In a hurry? What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? Because polybutylene pipes will fail, it's just a matter of when it will happen. I don't really get why this sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes. This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. Polybutylene pipes are a significant inconvenience for plumbers because these pipes cracks and leakages are not easy to find. However, the total cost of repiping a house may be as high as $15,000 depending on a variety of factors. Enter a valid a 10-digit phone number as ###-###-####. In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are. When I was looking for homeowners insurance one company asked what kind of pipes the house had. Now that you know the years that piping was used and maybe even what it looks like, you're an educated buyer who will know to ask that question and check it out for yourself before spending money on another inspection. Should You Buy a House With Polybutylene Pipes? These minerals are a primary reason that contributes to the deterioration of the polybutylene pipes. Repipe Specialists - USA. Then you will just need to choose the best one. Why is it a problem? These modified designs used the same PB pipes, but with upgraded joints. They suggest the sellers either bring the market price of the house down such that the buyer could make the necessary replacement or replace the system on their own with copper pipes. Our unique online platform was created to put them together with property sellers just like you. They buy houses for cash so that they dont depend on a lenders approval of their loan, unlike most buyers. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. In your case asking for $50k discount plus $20k probably wouldn't work. Buying a home in North/Central Florida? In our experience - once you have one leak, you are likely facing a systemic issue, and other leaks will follow. for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. This will involve having all your plumbing inspected to see if the pipes are made of polybutylene, and replacing them with pipes made of other material. Choice #2: Repipe Your Home and then Sell It. Since every individuals situation is unique, a qualified professional should be consulted before making financial decisions. Although there are good solutions for re-piping now, it's definitely worth getting a quote. The insurance agent gave me the quote without the pipe information and it was way too high so I forgot about the pipe question until now. She wants her X-thousand(s) of dollars from you and that's her priority. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. You should discuss with them the different kinds of pipes available and the cost of each. The property will have to be fixed before closing if a mortgage is involved. Once touted as the longer lasting and cheaper alternative to copper pipes, this material was installed in millions of homes throughout the later decades of the 20th century. Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. You will have to spend a lot of time, money, and energy trying to repair the pipes. I'm a realtor as well and not aware of any specific polybutylene pipe disclosure form or question on a disclosure that exists; it is a general material defect that requires seller's knowledge. If you are purchasing a home, you likely have some homeowner insurance covering the houses cost of damages. Push-on shut-off valves are a good option for this repair, also. Visit ourPLUMBINGpage for other related blog posts on this subject, or go to the INDEX for a complete listing of all our articles. If we compare these two options, the first one is very clearly the better and more feasible option for you as a seller because, in this case, you would turn the entire problem over to the buyer and walk away. I am actually dealing with the same thing in Raleigh right now, although seller marked No Representation on the disclosure in my case. People could easily break these laws if they choose not to disclose information about their usage of polybutylene pipes on their property. During my over 20-year real estate investing career, Ive dealt many times with properties having this problem. The kind of pipes you use to replace them, The size of your home and how many stories it has, Whether or not the work includes exterior water supply connections, the availability of the inspecting plumber and the contractor, if you have good weather for any exterior work, the average Days On Market (DOM) for resale homes in your area. It is now mainly an academic exercise determining why a specific system failed and/or if an existing poly-b system may fail in the future. They were installed in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes. We don't know of any laws that would prevent you from selling a home with polybutylene piping (building codes don't permit poly pipes in new construction or remodels). As weve mentioned, the uncertainty of buying a home that has polybutylene pipes creates a scary situation for most homebuyers. You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. Since this is probably unfamiliar territory for you, you will need to be prepared to spend a lot of time searching on the Internet. The majority of polybutylene plumbing installed is still installed and working fine. The breaking or cracking of pipes means that the water running through these pipes will now have a way to leak into the houses structure and cause long-term damage. If you are looking to purchase a home, look out for the signs of polybutylene piping as inspectors and realtors may not be required to disclose. Of course, only specific insurance companies can answer that question, for your specific circumstances. Within 10 years or less, homeowners started witnessing leaking or burst pipes and sometimes catastrophic damage from them. Finding out that your dream house has polybutylene pipes can be discouraging, and it might sway your decision on whether to buy the home and rightfully so, these types of pipes can be risky. Just my opinion. I just bought a house in N.C. and I spent $425 on the home and pest inspection and another $275 on the septic inspection, which included draining the tank and doing a camera inspection. What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? 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